johnn,

Glad you found the site and were willing to share the information you have on the Vetcraft Shops. Perhaps you could share some images of what you have collected. The forum is geared for discussion and education.

Fred

A further word specifically on the City Dairy milk wagon. What a great artifact! As already suggested it is unlikely to have been a one-off. But still a wonderful piece.

The story of the City Dairy is itself quite remarkable. It was established ca. 1900 by Walter Massey at his model farm east of Toronto. It was known as the Dentonia Farm, the name now preserved in the golf course of that name.

The dairy was one of the first modern dairies in Canada - and appears to have been the first to pasteurize its milk. It delivered dairy products throughout Toronto for many years.

In response to Fred.

I will try to get some pictures together in the next few days, although it may take me a little time to get at the collection as a lot of it is stored. As I recall, it includes a variety of bowls, humidors, crumb trays and crumbers, vases, etc. in both brass and copper. A number of them have stamped numbers, like the C13 referred to by an earlier contributor. Some have them, some don't. Although they could be style numbers, I am not wholly convinced of that. It is still a mystery to me.

Dang, the competition for hunting Vetcraft pieces around Toronto just increased by 100%. In other words now there are 2 of us that I know about!!!

Welcome Johnn - good to see another GTA collector on-board. Your info is very helpful; I assume you've done some digging at the library archives, something I've been thinking about myself. Sounds like you have a great collection. I only have a few pieces and really have only been looking for a year or two. I'll post some pics tonight. I had a couple pics up months ago but deleted them assuming the thread had died. Based on your list, I have not heard about crumbers and trays or brass pieces; the one thing to add that I have heard about are candle sconces (from an auction listing); another confirmed item is serving trays, and I have one piece with a silver wash. I agree that the numbers on the base are probably stock/style numbers after seeing a couple now (they don't always agree with diameter, but then again copper changes dimension when hammered out). I've also seen two different shop marks - one with the name of the shop around the triangle and one without (presumed to be earlier).

Fortunately there are others who have interest in Vetcraft. The woman who I first quoted has also been researching this organization along with other Canadian metalworkers. I am thrilled to have this information documented here. That is what this forum is about.

It would be helpful to document the numbers and letters that appear on each of the items to see if there is a pattern that may reveal their meaning. A well known Detroit metalsmith did use a similar method to id his work. A 10" diameter bowl with 12 lobes is marked "12 L 12" indicating that it was made from a 12" diameter flat sheet and has 12 lobes. Perhaps the Vetcraft bowls might all be marked with a similar letter and the numbers might indicate size.

Fred

Here's my collection...just a few pieces so far. The piece with "Army Trade Schools" does not have the Vetcraft mark but I assume it was made as a momento by somone who trained and/or worked in the shop - the quality is the same, the gauge is the same, the patina is similar, the Maple Leaf is of course very Canadian, and it was found in Canada, so adds up to me. The big bowl is marked C13 and the silver wash dish is marked C14. The silver wash dish is exactly the same design and proportion as the other handled copper dish, but larger, and has the triangle mark with the name of the shop while the copper one does not have the name but just the triangle. The big tray has the mark as an attached tag, all others are embossed.

In the light of the most recent round of postings I thought I might share a message I sent in mid-February to Canada's Minister of Veterans Affairs. No reply has yet been received.

Anyone who wishes to add their voice to mine can e-mail the minister at:

Minister-Ministre@vac-acc.gc.ca

Below is the message:

Dear Mr. Minister

For over 80 years the Ministry of Veteran's Affairs has been responsible for an enterprise known as the Vetcraft Shops [VS] [see Vetcraft Shops Regulations, C.R.C. 1978, c. 1582 ]. The VS was, I believe, established to provide a sheltered job environment for returning veterans of WWI who, through injury or otherwise, were unable to secure conventional employment.

In recent years the VS seemed to only to produce the remembrance day poppies. But in its heyday it produced high quality metalcraft and a variety of quality childrens toys. You might wish to see the following thread in an Internet forum devoted to the work of the 1880 to 1930 arts and crafts movement:

http://forum.arts-crafts.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9886045532/m/838102958

Items produced by the VS are slowly coming to be appreciated for their quality but, sadly, very little is known about the VS and the items it produced.

It may be that a definitive history of the VS and its work already exists. If that is the case, I would urge you to give it wider publicity and make it available through the Internet.

If there is no such history, it would be a most worthwhile endeavor for your Ministry to commission one. There may still be people alive who were part of VS during its most productive period but the opportunity to interview them and get their stories may well be lost if nothing is done.

I hope this suggestion meets with a positive reaction from you.

[Signature]

Great to see all the interest in Vetcraft. The new pictures posted are great - I will try to get mine up this coming weekend.

I agree there is a need for an article or even better a monograph on the Vetcraft project. I am retiring next week after a lifetime in the heritage (museum) business, and I have been planning to do it as a "retirement" project. I will keep all of you informed on progress - I have already checked out archival resources here in Toronto and plan trip to Ottawa next month.

With respect to the stamped numbers. With the information already posted, I am convinced now that they were style numbers. The ones I have include:

C8 - 9 inch bowl (copper)
C14 - brass bowl with handle
C22 - crumber set with embossed leaf design
C24 - crumber set without design
C32 - 6 inch plate
C44 - humidor
C52 - vase
61C - heart-shaped ash tray (it may be C19 with upside down C and 1)

Many of these same shapes exist without numbers. and many other products have no numbers.

I have many examples of both trademarks - one with the words and one without. Some shapes can be found with either mark. And some shapes can be found in either brass or copper.

I also have an example of an ashtray from the Canadian Armed Forces Trades School, but mine is dated 1941-45. I don't believe there is any direct connection.

Finally, I am interested in following up on any possible connection with Sterling Metalcraft Limited in Toronto. They produced products in an Arts and Crafts style, and, like Vetcraft, used punched numbers on some objects.

Great letter Arthur

Great info Johnn and congrats on your retirement ENJOY IT!

We basically have the start of a product inventory going now!

I love the way the forum is bringing together this information for all to learn from. I agree that the numbers & letters are inventory numbers and have little to do with size or even shape. It would be interesting to find a catalogue or some other ephemera that would shed light on these items

With luck if Johnn makes his trip to Ottawa (our Capital) he can dig up some more information. The Canadian Govt does a fairly good job of archiving and recording stuff, but I saw a story once on TV about the conditions in some of the old buildings where they keep records, that wasn't too encouraging, e.g. water leaks, temperature control problems, humidity problems as a result, and so on.

Another Vetcraft item on E-bay - Commemorative Plaque.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7754...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Probably not of interest to this group but it does feature a version of their mark I have not seen before - looks like a decal of some kind.

The description says made by DAY NAME PLATES LIMITED. TORONTO (which is probably in the blurry fine print you can't read in the pics) so I assume they made the copper plaque part and the Vetcraft stamp on the back means that the vets made the wood base.

Some info re Day Name Plates:

http://www.stanleymfg.com/about_us.html

"Stanley Manufacturing Company is one of Canada's oldest nameplate and identification products manufacturers. The company was founded as Day Name Plates in Toronto in 1917 and began to manufacture the first commercial etched metal name plates ever produced in Canada. It grew from only two employees to 135 in the 1950's and today employs 35 people producing many of the same products it has for more than 80 years."

Aclose this is exactly what this forum looks for. Each piece of the puzzle makes our understanding clearer. Thanks for showing us this bit. Stone.. you always help tie it all together. Thanks

Fred

Very interesting to see the Anniversary plaque with the Vetcraft decal. As the anniversary was in 1927 it indicates that some of their programs continued past closure of their Dundas Street shop in 1925-26. Hopefully I will be able to get the answer in the Archives.

After some false starts, I now have some images of selected parts of my collection to share. To start with I have a group picture. If there any items that are of particular interest to other members of the forum I will provide individual closeups on request.

re the plaque: maybe the bases were made in 26 but just stored until needed or maybe the plaques were on the market already in 26; no need to wait until 27 to start selling them

Fantastic collection! I really like the vase at back right - similar to a Roycroft 'American Beauty'. The box in front is interesting as well, and the bowl with the rim decoration. Are these rivets, like the humidors, or just dimples? I'd be interested in closer pics of all of these.

Those who have been following this thread may be interested to learn that I have now received a reply from the office of the Minister of Veterans Affairs in response to the message I posted earlier.

A scan of the reply is attached

I don't think Vet Affairs is one of our richer Ministries so it's a nice "thanks for the idea but no thanks we won't be doing this any time soon" letter. Hopefully we here from 'johnn' again to see if he got to Ottawa and had any luck.

Stonecat - You may be right but at least the suggestion is on their radar screen which was not the case before. It may now at least have a fighting chance in the competition for funding of projects of this kind - however limited the available money might be.

Another copper Vetcraft item on E-bay

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1