Hello, I am sending you pictures of 2 items I bought at an antique sale at a person's house yesterday in Bay Village, Ohio. I bought these items because they looked high quality. Yesterday evening, I scanned the net for 4-5 hours looking for copper pieces with numbers on there bottom. I all but gave up hope and found your site.

I know, there is no way, these can be original, is there? I went back this morning to the same sale, to ask the elderly woman where these 2 items originated and she told me, they have been in her family since the 1920's. She also told me, through the years, she has cleaned them, so I do know the patina is shot.

Any information you can give me on these 2 items would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

J.

The tray is identical to a 13 3/8" diameter Stickley Bros. tray marked 343. What is the diamete of this tray? I suspect the mug is also a Stickley Bros. item though I do not find possitive identification for this style mug.

Congratulation to J.

Best,

Fred, thank you for your knowledge. The tray is 14 1/8" in dimeter without the handles. With the handles, it is 17 1/4" in diameter. The mug mimics an ewer you described with another member with regard to the brass straps.
Fred, would you know the year these items were made. I am dumb when it comes to vintage copper.

Thanks again Fred for the surprised news.

Welcome to the forum John and congratulations on your fortunate purchase. Do you collect copper and Arts & Crafts Movement metalwork?

I can only give you the time frame in which these would have been made and sold. Current research says between 1900 and before 1920. I suspect there are collectors who have a better grasp of the numbering system used to mark these. If we were to find another 14 1/8" tray like yours it would most certainly be marked 323.

You can now describe your tray as a Stickley Bros. #323 tray.

I will continue searching my books for the mug and I would have no problem describing it as a Stickley Bros. #232 mug.

Perhaps this post will coax someone to share their research with us.

Best,

Fred, thank you for your help thus far. No, I don't collect Arts and Crafts Movement Metalwork. Now, when I go to estate sales, you can probably guess what I am looking for. LOL. I had to take a double take when I saw the price this elderly lady wanted for this pair and I am talking an upper middle class neighborhood. I am embarrassed to tell you what I paid for the pair. I bought and read a Stickley book probably 25 years ago and when I saw this pair, for the money, I grabbed them.

Fred, why did the Stickley Brothers use numbers verses a stamped symbol? Like I say, I know zip about vintage copper. Since finding your site the other night, I have read many of the blogs and am absorbing all I can. Would I be wise to have someone re patina these items? Also, Fred, would you have any idea of the value of these items now and also if I had them re patinated?

Fred, thanks again for all of your help. The other night, when I started Googling for hours on end, I was getting frustrated after 4+ hours trying to find out what I actually bought. John

Hello John, nice to have a bump to the metalware forum. It can be addicting reading all the posts on these forums no? Your fortune of coming across these nice Stickley pieces will have you hooked on collecting I'm guessing since you jumped into the research with such vigor you will be on the hunt for more pieces. The same thing happened to me when I found a Gus Platter at a swap meet 3 years ago! I have had two pieces of copper re-patinated one Roycroft charger and the aforementioned Gus piece. Since you probably didnt pay much to begin with you can hardly go wrong in having them restored. The only thing that might deter you from doing that would be if you intended to sell them, you of course would have to advise they were restored, you lose some value to that versus just leaving them alone and waiting a couple of decades for the patina to come back on it's own.

I suspect that more of our resident collectors and experts on Stickley Bros. items will be weighing in on your posts, as for now I am of course jealous of your good fortune in finding the pieces, it's what keeps us all searching going in to "just one more sale" because you never know what you might come across and at what price. Ahhh, the hunt...

Dano

You know, upon further viewing of the mug, I think I would leave it alone. Unless there is extensive loss on the other side we arent seeing the patina of the copper has a nice look and the brass is very close to what Stickley Bros. would have been looking for. The platter of course is another story, too bad people think copper should be shiny! (My wife!) you might want to continue your research to find what the actual color of the patina might have been, try looking for a place on the piece that didnt get completely polished up and see if you can tell but dont do anything until you know for sure what color it should be.

Dano

Dano, hello there, so, you have the bug like me, huh. Yeah, I paid a whopping 20 bucks for the pair. Dano, where would I find what these items are worth or past auctions where I can get some info. I took more pictures and will post them, the mug on the other side, the elderly lady boogered that side up also though the patina is more uniform though I am no expert, not even a novice.

I do plan on selling both of these items, so, I am not sure if I should just leave them alone or get them re patinated. It isn't like I am going to sell them tomorrow but hopefully, sometime soon after I do more researching. Then my next question is, where do I sell them? I sell on ebay though I don't know if this is the best place.

Thanks again Dano for your help, hope to see you again. Now, I need to dig to find another piece I bought years ago.

Glad to hear your selling: I'll send you 40 dollars, that way you'll double your money! But seriously, search the Rago Craftsman catalogs and also Treadway catalogs online. From what I see, I agree with Dano: the cup looks good as is but the plate needs a new patina. I'll love finding a good deal!

I have been active on the Rago Auctions for the past 3 years and I dont recall seeing either of these type of pieces, they are nice but are not probably the most sought after copper/brass pieces. That is not to say they arent collectible on the contrary like Frank said I'd definately take them at that price and probably more even in their condition. Though no one really gives appraisals on here (it's difficult to not have it in your hands obviously)by doing research and finding examples of the same piece with auction or retail sales prices you can determine a value for them. Depending on the extent of restoration required the re-patination could run anywhere from $75-$225, I use those numbers from my own experience. There is some value lost for doing that and obviously they are not going to be worth what original patina would be. Again it has to do with what you put into them. I have no intention of selling either of the items and paid very little for the Gus platter ($4!!) Through my research I discovered my same platter sold in a Rago auction for $3250 in original patina. I use half that value for declaring insurance replacement value.

All that to say that Stickley pieces do very well on ebay auctions in original patina, I see them less often on Rago and Treadway though they are quality pieces they seem to hold less allure to collectors who are looking for Roycroft, Gus etc...I would say the best bet is to sell them as is with no restoration, leave that to whomever buys them or you run the risk of being stuck with them after putting money into them. You will do well with them either way and I wish you luck. I will keep my eye open for them when and if they come up on ebay.

Dano

Dano, what a bummer with the values. I guess, I will make room for them in one of my curio cabinets and forget about them, just like many other of my unique one of a kind antiques which I have no clue where to even begin to look.

Thanks for the info on where I can do research, I had already started researching those 2 sites. Now, with the help thus far from this site, I will be on the look out for more items I can stick in my curio cabinet.

John

I want to apologize to anyone who thought I was coming off wrong with my last message, I didn't mean so. I was just frustrated not being able to find on the net what I am looking for.

Fred, I did find the mug late last night, so close to mine though a different number. It was a #232 and mine is a #238. I will email you this, so you can have it for future use, the mug originated in Michigan. The site was Prices4Antiques.com., this company tells you what an antique sold for at auction, date of auction, what auction, etc. Now, if I ever care to know what my mug is worth, I can pay this site to find this out.


I am still trudging forward in search of both of mine. It isn't even there worth, I enjoy knowing the history behind the piece, just like everything else I collect which is all over the board.

Thanks to everyone of you who took the time to write, trying to help me. This subject is all to me and I do appreciate the help thus far.


John

John,

Thanks for sending the image. This is what I love about this forum.. The exchange of information.

Best,

Hey John and Fred, how about sharing that image with the rest of us?

Here it the url for the image and listing.

Stickley Bros. MUG

First of all I want to know if Im reading this right. You say you found this in Bay village, Ohio, right? I am sooo jelious, how did I miss those peices. Since I have no job right now I am constently searching for pieces to sell and you come into town behind my back and steal from me,hahahaha. I live here in Cleveland,ohio.
If your thinking about puting a knew patina on them you might want to talk to Luke Marshal. He has done some things for me and they came out fantastic and he very resonable. I have found out that some people do not realy care if it has a new patina they just want it to look good and will pay good money for it too.


Thanks,Mark!

By the way how did you know there was a house sale here?

Thanks,Mark!

Here is the contact information for Luke Marshall:

Email :deltacoppershop@hotmail.com

Phone: 315-334-7323

Best,

I like Luke Marshall's work. When I can get enough money together I'd like to buy one of his lamps. His work is very original, yet fits into the arts and crafts tradition.

Hi Fred, would you have a site for the 343 or 323 tray? I broke down and paid to find the value of my mug. According to that site, the last one to go to auction was in 1990.

In general, has Arts and Crafts Movement items increased over the years or with the present economy, decreased?


Thank you--John