Can anyone out there make a picture frame with a true through mortise-and-tenon joint?

yes, how big?

Don,

Thanks for your prompt response. I need it to accomodate a painting 18.5 x 26.25. I'd like to have the tenons keyed in the fashion of the stretchers on some of Gus's early library tables but I'm not married to that. Contact me at john.langevin@fortworthgov.org.

Thanks,
John

Ray & Don,

If this works out... Don, be sure to document the making of the frame and Ray, please post the framed painting. We would all like to share in this experience.

Fred

a through mortise with a pinned joint is easy in a frame. a keyed tennon would be rather small assuming a 3/4 inch thick frame. the tennon would only be 1/4 inch thick. let me think about it and send you a sketch.

Don,

I hadn't considered that; how thick would the frame need to be to make it feasible?

John

here is a sketch of a detail that should work.

upright is 1 1/2 inch wide by 1 1/4 thick.
horizontal rails are 1 1/2 inch wide by 1 inch thick. with an offset tenon of 3/4 by i inch, the key opening will be 1/4 inch. small but adequate.



with the frame as large as it is, the extra heft will be needed.

Don,

That looks great except that I'd like the frame to be twice as wide at 3".

John

That's going to be a thick frame then. You might consider doing fake mortise/tenon. Even the antiques have them sometimes, so it isn't bad to do.

Otherwise I'd suggest finding some old growth lumber, which isn't as dense as the new growth and will make it lighter in weight then.

I think this design is great - and would be even better with a 3" wide frame since it will counteract the thickness of the piece and make it look more proportional. Having a real keyed tenon would be much better, especially if Don will do it at a reasonable price!

Actually old growth lumber should be more dense. Old growth trees have tighter grain patterns (i.e. they grew slower) and should therefore have denser wood and better flake patterns. Also, old growth is hard to find and from a conservation stand point not good to buy.
See the recent issue of Style 1900 Dennis Bertucci's "The A&C Restorer" pgs 92-93.

I wouldn't be concerned about the weight of the piece. Ray Fleck (tee hee, I love that tag) will just have to be careful in hanging it.

Steve,

I concur with everything you say. the frame will look more proportional with the three inch width and from my understanding of tree physiology (I'm a horticulturist) old growth is definitely denser. I've already anticipated the need to hang the thing from a stud regardless of the age of the wood.

John

Don,

You've been silent about this for a few days; what's the status?

John

i've been sorting through qs oak boards looking for pieces that might work. i dont have a big stock right now. i think i have some pieces picked out, but need to plane to see how the ray flecks pop.

another question, which is the vertical dimension? the 18 or the 26?

here is a sketch of the wide stock frame.




i guess then we need to talk offline to come to a price.

Don,

The dimensions aren't concrete yet so don't start cutting. Contact me at john.langevin@fortworthgov.org to talk about a price.

John

Don, when you are finished with Ray Flecks frame I wouldnt mind talking to you about getting one as well if you are interested in making another one. I want to display my college diploma in a nice through mortise and tenon joint frame. Although I wouldnt mind seeing the completed keyed frame before I make up my mind.

I will watch this thread and post again when you finish with the frame for Ray Fleck. Dont want to highjack his thread.

Thanks,
Bill

sure, happy to talk to you.

a simple pinned through tenon will be much easier to make and can be made from thinner stock. with the keyed tenon, you have to allow enough width in the tenon to receive the key, in my mind, at least 3/4 with a 1/4 inch key. in a pinned tenon, 1/4 is sufficient for the full width of the tenon. below is a sketch of a pinned tenon.



let me know if you are interested.

I am interested. I showed the sketches to my wife and she likes the first keyed tenon that you sketched out with 1 1/2" wide stock and I think proportionally that would be the best as well. If you could email me at barroo03@yahoo.com we can discuss it further.

Thanks,
Bill

i am doing some estimating and checking availability of thick stock. i will contact both as soon as i get response from suppliers.

Don,

Do Bill's first since I'm not yet sure of the dimensions for mine.

John

Thanks John.

Don,
The dimension of the frame opening needs to be 14 1/2" horizontal dimension and 12" vertical dimension.

Thanks,
Bill