Why is a peg necessary in a high quality mortise and tenon joint? Was it done one hundred years ago because of low quality glue?
How long will a high quality mortise and tenon joint last using the highest quality glue and without a peg? Thanks!

one of the tenants of the Arts and Crafts movement and the Craftsman ideals was to stress the strutural elements of the work, rather than decorate the piece with applied ornament.

i can see the pinned tenon as one aspect of that. in addition to the added strength and resistance to stress, shrinkage and other forces, it emphasizes the presence of the tenon. several chairs i had thought to be tenonned, turned out to be dowelled, a weaker type of joint.

the strenght of new glues may eliminate the need for the peg. but it still looks good,

Hello Friends,
As Don Stated they not only looked good but added to the strength of the joints. I myself use them when ever I can and, the butcher block table I am making out of hard maple will definitely have them in the 1 1/2" tenons in the 1 1/2 " mortises.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

Another point is the type of rod to peg with.. I purchased a plug cutter to face cut my rods from quartered oak stock. If you simply use a 3/8 rod.. you will see the end grain of the wood..

quote:

Originally posted by HouseOfYesteryear:
Another point is the type of rod to peg with.. I purchased a plug cutter to face cut my rods from quartered oak stock. If you simply use a 3/8 rod.. you will see the end grain of the wood..

I've always found the end grain/face grain issue of the plugs interesting. While I understand that it is more historically accurate to use the face grain pegs, at the same time that will blend it in more to hide it in the existing grain, which kind of counters the idea of showing off the pegs for visual looks. End grain pegs always stain/dye up darker due to the nature of the grain, which visually pops them more to stand out.

Yip.. you are correct.. I think the end grain always finishes just a touch darker as well.. No right or wrong answer here.. it really just depends on the look you would like. Even contrasting woods looks great.. like quartered oak with maple pegs, cocabola, purpleheart.. etc..

i'm making a clock out of cherry that i will do square pegs that i want to look like ebony.

has anyone had any experience with "ebonizing" wood such as walnut using dye or stain?

with the little material needed i may just spring for some of the ebony look alikes on the market.

I am not sure you would even need to dye the wood.. Pick up a small can of ebony stain, and see if you can get the color you want from it..

I use a chemical ager on wood to get an 'old' look to it.. it is an amonia based product, that will let the stain soak into the wood.. it makes a big difference in oak, but in walnut it really does not show any difference.

quote:

Originally posted by HouseOfYesteryear:
I use a chemical ager on wood to get an 'old' look to it.. it is an amonia based product, that will let the stain soak into the wood.. it makes a big difference in oak, but in walnut it really does not show any difference.

Out of curiosity, what would that product happen to be called?

Good morning,


i buy my ager from a company called Kwick Kleen.. and it is a 2 part chemical ager. For hardwoods, you just need part #2


Thanks.

Hello Folks,
Lets drop back to the pegs for a moment. First off if you use the same dowel as the wood you are working with they will not show as bad as the general dowel rods you buy at the lumber yard or hardware. I order mine through Van Dyke's in the type of wood I am working with.

Face cut plugs are OK for covering a screw or nail but the grain will split if you try to use them as a supporting dowel.

Now for the Ebony dowels, here is the easy method for making Ebony out of Walnut. Simply buy some black liquid shoe polish and you have instant Ebony for a fraction of the cost of the other stains and process you folks mentioned.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

By all means peg your joints- a little added insurance and definitely a mark of "Arts&Craftsmanship". Today's adhesives do seem nothing short of miraculous,but they have yet to be tested by time. My experiences have demonstrated that rived or end grain pegs are measurably stronger than a face cut dowel. As to the ebonizing question, why not use ebony (or blackwood,etc). Those pen turning blanks are mighty convenient...

Good Morning Everyone,
Ebony plugs are fine if you can get them or have the money to invest plus shipping but the walnut and shoe polish is a poor man's way of achieving the same results.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

the question i raised was not just a matter of cost, but of sustainable forestry. ebony is a rainforest wood and in some areas a declining species. i know other species are now used in place of ebony, and i will probably look into those and the place of origin.

on the other hand, i have a lot of small pieces of walnut.

these pegs will be square, so i will be cutting from stock, not buying precut. i had not considered pen blanks as a source. i will look into that as well.

I was speaking with a friend of mine the other day about walnut.. He has a small mill over in St Bernice. Anyways, he was telling me he has the same 2000 bd ft of walnut that he had 3 years ago. It does not sell at all..

Oh, I was going to mention this to Don.. You live in souther Indiana right? i guess that guy that has all of the mission antiques, down my Mitchell.. Around the corner Frank Miller built a new mill, and has plans in the future to build an outlet store for quartered oak..

Pegged
Even the new pva glues will go brittle and fail.
Straight grain pegs (shows the end grain) will hold better. The peg is there so that the tenon will not slip out over time.

Here is a video:
video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLfb7m9Fug

Sean

wow, thanks for the news about frank miller. i was just looking at that web site.

that would be very handy. that would be a lot easier that driving to union city.

there is a company here in louisville that mills millions of board feet of lumber with lots of quartered stock. but they only sell in minimum of a pallet of lumber. smallest i have inquired about was 240 BF. price for quartered white oak was about $4.50.

http://www.northlandcorp.com/

also locally is a company called McEwen Lumber that stocks QWO wholesale. they will sell minimum of $100 per order. about the same price as above. i have bought from them several times. friendly service, good product.

http://www.hoodindustries.com/distribution/mcewen/locat...louisville/location/

and yet another in southern indiana, Pennignton Hardwoods, which i have only looked at online, but also advertises selection of good woods.

http://www.penningtonhardwoods.com/

local WoodCraft store also stocks hardwoods, including QWO, but at $6.80-$7.00 BF.

$7.00 a board ft?

Frank miller is more in the $3.50 range.. $7.00 is unreal..

That is an excellent point of the end grain plugs.. Alos most glues do expand the wood a little , I bet you also get more expansion from an end grain vs a face plug