Hello Don, I just purchased a gallon from my retail store by special order so now I don't have to mix my own anymore. My discount cost was $26.00 per gallon. Since I am personal friends with the manager I have an edge on some folks.
SOmething i have discovered with this chair. For whatver reason, it does not want to stain evenly, no matter what I do some areas get way too dark, if i apply the stain directly onto the wood. However something i discovered quite by accident, and perhaps is a big no-no.....but if i apply amber shellac first, and THEN the stain, it looks much nicer, more even and uniform. Is there any reason NOT to do shellac, stain and then shellac?
Yes you can stain over shellac, assuming you are using minwax or similar (water based stain is another story). Using a little bit of shellac on end grain is a trick to try to keep it from going too dark. I suspect what has happened is that you have worked the wood so much that it is uneven in porosity. Some areas are raw wood and some areas aren't - the raw areas are soaking up the most and getting the darkest. A thinned coat of shellac is beter than unthinned and don't try painting on successive coats of stain, because the result will be goo. As said before, minwax (and other modern stains) have a little sealer in then, thinned varnish or a hardening oil or similar, so in a way minwax stain could be described as a really really really thin tinted varnish, it soaks in and coats at the same time, more than one coat and it doesn't really soak in too much it just coats the previous coat, and so on, so again don't paint on several coats. A thinned coat of shellac in theory produces an even surface to accept an even coat of stain, and helps prevent the uneven soaking in problem - works good with softwoods like pine but can work with oak as well.
Great. Yes I am using minwax red mahogany stain. I think this is going to work then! Do you recommend sanding at all, after the shellac and before the stain? Or just stain right over the shellac?
If you brushed the shellac on and it looks a little uneven (get down low and look across it from different angles) then yes sand with fine paper or even steel wool, but the best way to apply thinned shellac is actually with a rag which causes it to go on really thin and even, but you have to move fast, almost to the point where you can feel a little pull on the rag because the shellac is drying so fast. Practice makes perfect.
I applied it with a clean rag, using circular motions for about a minute, and then right before it got tacky, i would wipe it in the direction of the grain to even it out...using it sraight out of the can, 3lb cut, is that a good way to do it?
That's sort of like french polishing, as its called, and that works as a finish coat if you want a gloss finish. I thin down to about a 1 lb cut by adding thinner and literally only wipe over once or twice for a few seconds, not a minute LOL. You only need a really thin coat for staining, and even for waxing. To convert 3 lb cut to roughly 1 lb cut you have to add 2 parts thinner to one part 3 lb cut (which of course already has thinner in it, you are just dilluting it more)
Where I am now, is i have apllied one coat of amber shellac, and then last night a coat of mahogany stain. The chair looks pretty nice and even and not as dark as I would like though. So that is where i am now, and i would like to ask for advice on making it any darker as I think Stonecat said not to put more than 1 coat of stain over the shellac...but am afraid maybe i should just try to figure that out on my own so as not to offend.....anyways that is where things stand now. And I do appreciate EVERYONE's advice. I am really just trying to learn and apply most of what you all are advising
ok, here it is as of 5 minutes ago. One coat of amber shellac and one coat of minwax Mahoganey (left on for about 10 minutes). If it matters, outside temp was about 60 F and 50% humidity.
Well Ken, I just had to hang around to see what you have done and I have to hand it to you that is one fine piece of work and I congratulate you on your fine job of finish. It is beautiful and I am proud of you for your persistence.
Based on the pics I added on page 2 I can see why it might look good to go a little darker - truer to original colour. The caution about 'painting' on lots of stain still applies, so I would say one more coat and call it quits. Seeing it now, the other thing I would say is, don't go for the really really dark brown. My thinking here is this: The chair will now look refinished as compared to original and what's the number one colour the most people grab and use for refinishing just about anything - dark walnut; so at the risk of the chair looking like just another dark walnut face in the crowd, maybe avoid a heavy coat of the dark walnut, maybe pick up a can of a lighter or medium brown colour and try to get it to end up like the lower of the three pics on p.2. Plus, applying something dark over a base that already has some colour is likely to come out even darker, if you know what I mean. Just my thinking here but your call because you have to mix it with other furnishings etc. so whatever you think.
Ok guys, thanks for the feedback and comments. After seeing it for another day here, I think I REALLY like the amber/mahogany color, and it appears Harcen did use a similar look at times, as here is a Harden chair with an original finish that looks pretty similar to mine: http://www.ragoarts.com/onlinecats/09.02AC/1031.jpg So, I would like it a little darker shade, but without changing the color any. Would just adding another coat of Mahoganey accomplish that? Or, perhaps to get it darker by adding a patina affect, as it has none right now. WOuld a type of dark glaze perhaps add a patina affect without changing the base color?
Again just my advice, stay away from any "glazing" products. Did they have and use these in 1910??? Nope. I mean, even if we use 'modern' stain and shellac and wax to refinsh, the spirit is still their that its as close to faithfull as possible. Glazing products are a modern attempt to fake the passage of time 'on' the wood, which is a bit different than staining, which mimics the passage of time 'in' the wood. I would just use a dark paste wax to get some more depth, and grind a bit extra into nooks and crannies to help with the 'aging' process - it will dry and harden and start looking 'old' in no time.
If you like the colour now then STOP. Let it dry and cure a bit more, skim coat with amber again, and go for the dark wax - this might give you exactly the colour pop you want and is perfectly safe compared to 'who knows what will happen' if you slap some sort of glaze on it.
If you want to play with glaze, try it on scrap or cheap stuff but generally its not a great idea for good refinishing; it has a real Martha Stewart feel to it...yuck.
ok Stonecat, that makes perfect sense. I will stop now with the stain then, just add some amber shellac and dark paste wax. It is cold and humid here now, about 60 and 50% humidity, so should i let it dry for more than 24 hrs before doing more shellac? Has been about 36 hrs so far...
<Ken>
Posted
one more question. THere are some areas in the nooks and crannys where there is too much stain or shellac accumulation making the refinish look pretty amateurish. What is the safest way to even those areas out without hosing the chair? DO i just carefully try to get at them now with mineral spirits and denatured alcohol before proceeding? or sand and carefully re-shellac/restain those areas? Or..?
You are probably tired of sanding by now so just try exactly what you've suggested to clean it up - just use a q-tip or a piece of rag over the end of a small dowel/stick/whatever and go easy at it. Waiting another little bit to finish it will probably be a good idea because of the conditions you mention. Humidity and shellac don't like each other (unthinned shellac can trap the moisture and turn completely white colour, but you should never really use unthinned shellac anyways - rookie mistake to brush on shellac in high humidity, been there), and humidity combined with low temps will slow the stain drying a fair bit.
Ok, finally finished it. 53 hrs total, but I think it was worth the time and effort, as I plan to grow quite old with this rocking chair (i hope). Am posting 2 before and 2 after pics. The after pics are:after stripping paint and old finish off, applied wood filler, applied coat of amber shellac, one coat minwax red mahoganey, 2 more coats amber shellac, one coat black bison dark brown paste wax. Also the seat was original, so tore off the horrid plastic upholstry that was on their, to find some very good springs. Recovered with 1" foam custion and brown leather.
so just try exactly what you've suggested to clean it up - just use a q-tip or a piece of rag over the end of a small dowel/stick/whatever and go easy at it. Waiting another little bit to finish it will probably be a good idea because of the conditions you mention. Humidity and shellac don't like each other (unthinned shellac can trap the moisture and turn completely white colour, but you should never really use unthinned shellac anyways - rookie mistake to brush on shellac in high humidity, been there), and humidity combined with low temps will slow the stain drying a fair bit.
