I think an interesting discussion here would be to define the term “finish”.

To me, once you have sanded the piece to final smoothness, anything beyond that is the finish. I include dyes, stains, sealers, shellacs, varnishes, lacquers, waxes, etc. as “the finish”.

So, in restoring or refinishing, removal or modification of any of those components constitutes a refinish. Wax would be the obvious exception to that. But removing shellac or varnish is definitely changing the finish, even if the color does not change. I have heard people talk of removing old shellac and varnish but not disturbing patina. The patina occurs in the finish, not in the wood. If properly applied and undisturbed, the wood is sealed and does not undergo any major changes except from UV if exposed for long periods.

I would be interested in how others see this.

Good question since you often see people sell items as "restored original finish". Based on your definition of refinish any restoration is a refinish, right? However, I think many people consider it refinishing only when the sealer (shellac, lacquer, etc.) is totally removed and replaced...

yes, if you remove wax you remove dirt and some discoloration, but i wouldnt call that the finish. as long as the sealer is intact the original survives.

i have seen dealers that wont even dust a piece in fear of damaging finish. to me, a dirty chair is a dirty chair. the dirt disguises the finish and hides the beauty of the wood.

Hello Don,
You have brought up a great subject here and since I am a furniture restoration and refinishing person I have to agree with you immensely. I get some people mad when I tell them that all the piece needs is a good cleaning with Murphy's oil soap to get the dirt off.
Their comment is , " I'll have you to know that I keep my house clean." I then explain to them that no matter how much they clean and or wipe the dirt over the years is still going to build up between coats of waxing.

Now when I do a refinish I strip all the way down to the bare wood and start the finishing process all over again and then I tell them that they can't say that it is restored but only that it has been refinished.

To restore means to return to it's original finish. Well if you remove the original finish how in the world could it be back to the original,when there is no original?

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

I would call refinishing, removing anything beyond the prepared topcoat..

To me if you want to call it an antique with the original finish, all that should ever be done is cleaning with Old English, lemon oil, orange oil, and maybe another coat of wax. Shellac mellows so much with time, removal of it.. is taking away a vital part of the original coloring. if I strip the old shellac off of woodwork, then apply a new coat of shellac.. It is still a shellac finish, but in no way will they look the same. Anything beyond cleaning and wax is 'refinishing' ..

I think color etc.. my furniture looks fairly old, from the patina standpoint.. But even though it is a traditional shellac and wax finish, there is no way it will be mistaken for an antique.. It is missing the years of mellowing that shellac undergoes on an antique piece of furniture.

i had an old piece i have talked about before. thinking it was an old beatup taboret with no value due to paint splatter, nail holes etc, i started stripping with alcohol to remove the old shellac. the piece was almost solid black. i could see the quartered grain underneath, but there was no distinction bewteen grain and rays.

after wiping with alcohol, the rays popped in a deep orange while the surrounding wood stayed black. my intent was to strip to bare and restain.

then as i took it apart, i found the shop of the crafters label and decided to leave the remaining color and do the best i could to rebuild it and just reshellac.

the point is, that either the shellac had darkened to almost black over the years, or that a colorative was added to the shellac that made it black. at first i thought it was just fumed until it was black, but the alcohol wouldnt have lightened that.

the shellac is the finish and contributes color and character as much as it is a sealer and protector.

have any of you ever tried to add color to shellac? do you think this was what was used in this case?

So if you removed any extra layers of finish added AFTER the original finish so that all that is left is the original finish would this be restoration or refinishing? Or is doing that even possible? Say it originally had shallac and someone later added a coat of varnish/latquar or whatever?

quote:

Originally posted by Ken:
So if you removed any extra layers of finish added AFTER the original finish so that all that is left is the original finish would this be restoration or refinishing? Or is doing that even possible? Say it originally had shallac and someone later added a coat of varnish/latquar or whatever?

It would be restoration, but it would also be almost impossible with lacquer/varnish over shellac because the strippers for lacquer/varnish also strip shellac. The only real chance you have to restore to an original shellac finish is if the piece has been painted and the paint is flaking and separating from the shellac and you can clearly tell the difference between the two layers. Then you can very very very carefully try to scrape the paint with various razer blade tools or cabinet scrapers etc. and maybe using a lubricant of some sort to prevent scratches, however this would only be worth the effort for a valuable piece because it will take a really long time to do. Heat guns are an option for paint as well, but the idea is to go right down to the wood and I doubt you could get it just right to separate paint from shellac. Lacquer can also flake but the scraping trick is going to be harder because the finishes are sort of close in appearrance and texture. The type of varnish used over the years for furniture, tends not to flake; I would guess it was probably designed on purpose not to flake, to be 'better' than shellac and varnish in that regard, so this would be really hard to scrape and separate from shellac.

Seeing what the natural affects of humidity and moisture and conversely drying and sunlight exposure have on finish, I wonder if there is actually a way to maybe steam off paint or lacquer, sort of a steam it to get some moisture under it and then rapidly dry it with a blow dryer (not a heat gun) to get it to contract and crack and flake off??? ...would probably hurt the shellac at the same time, but might be a good experiment on a cheap piece