Hi all. I am new here and so glad I found this forum. I have recently aquired a serious taste for mission oak antique furniture. Just aquired a Limbert rocker that appears to have been sloppily refinished at some point, at least I THINK that is what is going on. I assume the original finish would be where the signed tag is? Please tell me what your think from the photos? And is there anyway to remove the refinish and restore the original finish? My goal is to get the chair back to it's original look and not decrease it's value any in the process. Any advice as to what to do, if anything would be appreciated :=)

The two-tone look around the brand is original, to the best of my knowledge. From my collected notes and Limbert shop mark pictures, I think that what they did was mask off an area for the brand before staining and finishing and when dry and ready to ship they added the brand as the last step. Conversely they may have done the brand, masked over it, and then stained/finished - either way, same end product. This came up several months ago; there is another thread on this down the list somewhere.

So you may indeed have an original finish, but just in rough shape. The thing to do is test the finish in an inconspicuous spot to see if it is shellac, because if so then it's either original or restored shellac. With a q-tip or little piece of cloth on the end of a pencil eraser, rub a hidden spot with denatured alchohol (shellac thinner, aka methyl hydrate). If you get some finish to come off, its shellac. If not its something else and yes has been redone or overcoated with lacquer or varnish. I'd say do this first and report back.

To be honest it looks like an original finish; rough but original.

edit - looking at the last picture also suggests that the brand was shellaced over, probably as the ultimate final step after the process suggested above

Thanks, I will test it in the manner you suggested. If it is refinished, is there anyway to restore it to the original finish? Or is that too risky to try? Also, any idea as to the value of the chair and model? It appears all original except the middle slat has been replaced and a small piece of wood above the slat in the back of the chair about 1" high by the length of slat wide....

Technically you can't restore it to original, if you know what I mean. If it has been overcoated with lacquer or varnish then the process of stripping either of these will destroy and remove the old original shellac underneath. In this case then this might actually be the best thing to do because a really good refinish job with period technique (shellac and wax) is better than a bad refinish job with the wrong finish. If its original shellac however then honestly I would say leave it or find a really good restorer who can carefully even up the colour by a mix of cutting back a bit of the finish here and there and adding finish and colour where it might help, but this is a tough call based just on pictures.

Here are other examples of the two-tone mark area (picture I posted months ago but luckily still had)

Thanks for posting those, that is helpful. In the meantime, would it be safe to apply Howards Feed-N-Wax? Also, what about the Howards Restore A Finish? Would that help bring back the finish, or would that be unwise to try?

Probably a bad idea either way - there's no magic bullet in a bottle for good restoration of high value pieces like your rocker, so caution is advised. Nothing against Howard's products but the principal idea of faithful restoration is 'don't do anything that isn't reversible'. I bet the feed n wax contains mineral oil and this will soak into any areas of unprotected wood. This will change it forever and doesn't represent the original finish. The restore a finish probably has a mix of different solvents and shellac and/or other finishes (linseed oil/varnish ?) intended to dissolve, smooth out and recoat. Again, not faithful to the original. These things work fine for modestly priced pieces and don't really affect value. A Limbert rocker is above average value, even if it looks rough but has it's original finish. If it's a case of wanting to have a nice looking Arts and Crafts rocker that is going to be well used in the house then you could probably sell the Limbert, or trade down to a dealer, and get a cheaper generic rocker and make a few dollars at the same time.

I'll see what I can find on value for this one.

Actually, i bought the rocker because I wanted a Limbert and bought it as an investment and for personal use, so while I would like it to look nice, I do NOT want to do anything to devalue it either
As for the Howards Feed n Wax, it says 'Feed-N-Wax is a special blend of beeswax, carnauba wax, and orange oil'....so no mineral oil, but would it still be bad idea?
As for a generic mission rocker...i actually purchased one a week ago that I would love your feedback on....it seems very uique and wil start a new post for it.

Orange oil IS mineral oil, but with an artificial scent added; it's not made from oranges or citric acid or anything like that Lemon oil, same deal.
Just waxing the chair is perfectly acceptable and this will probably make it look better, as is. Give it a resonable cleaning with mild soap and water, don't rub too hard, let it dry, and wax it - quickest safe thing to do.

Now as far as value goes, seems to be a bit of a range for this one. Here's one that sold for only 250 at Treadway's auction (just a couple weeks ago) but the rockers had been replaced:


...and here's what appears to be the same rocker at a dealer for 675

http://www.jcdreamlight.com/p3/furniture/limbert_rockers.html

So nothing too high in price, which actually helps in regards to deciding to refinish it. Considering yours has had a replaced piece on the back and the finish is rough and the valuation is not real high then maybe a sympathetic restoration is worthwhile. One other question - what condition is the seat cushion in?

The seat has been recovered, however I do not know who to tell if it is an original cushion...any ideas on that? Sounds like I overpaid (bought it from an antique store for $595)but I really wanted a singed Limbert and had not found one before for under $1000..As for refinishing.....I think if I find it is the original finish, I will leave it. But if it is not and we refinish it, is there anyway to get the quartersawn medula ray look back?

i dont think jcdreamlight has the limbert rockers still. i will check this weekend.

i will ask him about the value based on your pics and the description of repairs. i dont expect it to be good.

if he still has the rockers, i will try to get a decent shot of the finish, although finish varied depending on batch of wood, wear and care over the years, etc. anyway, i will find out what i can.

ok, I took your suggestion and got some shellac remover and tried a couple of inconspicuous areas underheath. And it did come up on the que-tip. However, if this is the original finish, why are there so many areas where the finish has serious runs...like it was just glopped on in certain areas and then ran down the slats and posts. It is hard to see in the pictures, but one example is the area in the picture under the front posts, where you can see 2 dark reddish brown drips. Did they just do a really bad job of staining back then? I would have thought with such quality made furnitutre that the finish would be done well too?

I meant to say the front posts arms...an example of what appear to be stain drips

Hello Ken,
I have restored and refinished a many a chair and other pieces of furniture and that chair is a mess. I would like to see it outright rather than a picture but, we both know that is improbable.
First I studied the chair very long before starting to write this post. After a long period here are some of he things that I found;
1. The center splat is a plain sawed piece of oak and was replaced for the original QSWO one.
2. The white hazy appearance may be polyurethane as varnish or shellac will not turn white as several parts of the chair did and this is a result of sunlight exposure next to a window.
3. The attempt to match the original patina ended up into a mess as you have so noted.

Now as far as I am concerned, what I would do is to clean it up with denatured alcohol and get the junk finish that is on there off but, try not to go all the way to the bare wood if you can. Allow it to dry until the alcohol has completely evaporated at least over night.

Now here is where you are going to start getting some of the old patina back into the chair. Buy one quart of red oak stain and some fiberless roof coating, mix 1/2 pint of the roof coating into the red oak stain in a larger container and you will have an artificial fumed look without the fumes.

Hand rub this mixture onto the wood overlapping as if you were waxing a car and blend well but, not too heavy. Allow this to set for about 15 minutes an using clean paper towels wipe off the excess and allow to dry. You should have a light color in the morning. Should you care for a darker color just add another coat as before and or until you get the stained finish you desire. then you are ready for the finish. I prefer Tung Oil by Minwax but, you may choose to use lacquer, Varnish or shellac. Please never use polyurethane on an old piece of furniture.I am attaching a dining room table that I had to repair and refinish, I hope you like it.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

Ken,
Here is another picture of the same table.

Ralph Jones

Very nice looking! I think i will try what you are suggesting. I have never refinished anything before, so if you have any 1st timer advice I am all ears. Do I just use a cloth with the shellac remover to remove the shellac? I do also have some 0000 steel wool.

Hello Ken,
Never but never use actual steel wool because of the chance of getting rust on the or in the wood.
The 3M company make imitation steel wool and it is the best to use on refinishing jobs.

When using the imitation pads you will want to start with #0 and work your way to # 0000 as this will really give you good results.
Should you care you may email me at Ralj7@AOL.com if and when you have any questions on restoring furniture.

I am going to attach a 1930 walking cane display case that I reproduce as the original was eaten up by termites.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

Ken, I have been teaching myself furniture restoration over the last two years so I thought I might throw in my advice here for someone who is just learning the trade/hobby/pasttime. You can obviously take some, all, or none of the advice but here it is:

First, stop now and don't touch your Limbert rocker until you get some experience on less valuable pieces. Given that you paid almost $600 for it, I would try your hand at other pieces that cost a lot less - preferably nothing. The first two pieces I restored I got for free and others since have been $100 or less. I wouldn't do a total strip down on a $500 plus piece as your first project. Starting with cheap pieces was great for me because I could screw up or be successful and it didn't really matter. Then, read books, magazines, and all the online info you can find as you go through the process of figuring out what exactly you want to do with your more valuable pieces. Your ideas will certainly change as you learn. In the mean time I would clean up the rocker as recommended by stonecat and just have a well-used antique in your house.

Good luck. And do post here often with any and all types of questions. You will find plenty of opinions. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the advice Steve. I am going to practice on an old chair we have in the garage and a couple old oak mission footstools. Any adfice on a good book that would specifically address restoring/refinishing old mission oak furniture?

Ralph,
Did you get y email from Friday?

quote:

Originally posted by Ken:
Any advice on a good book that would specifically address restoring/refinishing old mission oak furniture?

The book you want is "The Pegged Joint, Restoring Arts & Crafts Furniture and Finishes"

http://stickleymuseumshop.safeshopper.com/13/101.htm?228