Hi,

I am having angst over whether to replace or restore existing wooden sash windows in my arts and crafts house, circa 1921. The windows are all stained chestnut, not ever painted. For the most part, they seem to be in tact, and look good, except for the windows upstairs that appear to have weathered a little bit more. Of course, if I don't put plastic up in the wintertime, on the inside, I still get visible leakage, but only upstairs rather than downstairs. Also, I do need to have about half the sash cords replaced, and some windows re-glazed. I read recently that older homes were possibly built with old growth forests trees, and that newer windows were built with young wood. I recently saw these tree farms out west, and was shocked! It looked like a prison camp for trees!

So, being that these windows are all stained, I think I want to preserve the architectural significance of them. I am also thinking strongly in terms of resale what is best. Older historic windows, or newer energy efficient ones. I do have storm windows, old ones, on every window. I was also thinking of just replacing them, and restoring the inside windows.

Ugh, too much for me to think about on my own!!!!

thanks-Shari in Pa.
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Hi,

Sorry for all the misspells in my previous email I don't check before I send emails, shame on me...

Additionally, referencing my previous email about my older wooden windows, I have a front porch that has windows in the living/dining rooms that are sealed, and would not have to be replaced as they are never opened. The porch is beautiful, as it is enclosed, but by huge glass/screen windows all around, from almost floor to ceiling, so I get the light, air etc., and no need to open these interior windows. So, even if I did replace the other living room, dining room windows, they would not match these other windows in each separate room, and I would have two different kinds of windows no matter what! being an artist myself, and very visual, I am not sure I could live with this discrepancy. Any additional thoughts about this?

I did have a window company come out, and looked at vinyl replacement windows that had a cherry simulated look very close to my stained windows. BUT!!!!! they are vinyl, even the word stresses me out!and would have the fake window panes inside the glass. Wooden windows would cost about a 1000.00 bucks, and wow, quite an expense.

thanks for listening again....Shari

[combined posts, Lauren]

Do NOT replace your old windows with vinyl. It will reduce your home's value. The old bungalows (and in fact just about everything up to 1960) were built with old-growth timber.

The grain on old-growth wood is very tight, straight, and has relatively few knot holes unlike wood from managed forests. (Of course, it depends on the wood.) If you don't have the wherewithal to restore your windows yourself, find a local contractor that specializes in historic restorations. They can also provide ideas for installing interior panes that will add insulation value.

Have an energy appraisal done then use that as a checklist to improve the weatherization of your house. Sometimes your power company can do it. Here in Portland, have the Energy Trust.

But whatever you do, keep those windows!

FWIW, the tree farms you saw out here were probably alder and those are used for paper pulp, not building. Wood for building still comes out of regular forests. Now they're managed, not old growth.

Rikki

thank you Rikki for your sage advice....shari

Hi Shari,
I concur with Rikki and since I have 60 years of woodworking under my belt I will be more than happy to work with you in choosing the right contractor to restore your windows.

In most cases for windows that use the rope cord and weights the rope will sometimes break and the weight will fall to the bottom of the cavity. Should this happen there is a removable part of the window casing that can be removed to give access to the weight. To install a new rope of the old close line type or a good cotton rope you will need to first feed the rope over the pulley wheel and down through the cavity to where you can reach in to get it and pull enough out to re-tie to the weight. Then replace the weight and cover, then with the window all the way down slide your hand down the rope to where it is half way between the pulley and the top of the bottom window and make a single overhand knot and cut the balance of the rope off, then lean the top of the window out and insert the knot in the hole on the side of the sash and return the window back to the vertical position and replace the window stop. This will allow the weight to be off the bottom by about 24" but not enough to open the window by it's self. You may email me at Ralj7@aol.com

Respectfully,

Ralph

Hi Shari

I bought my 1912 home in March 1999 and have one more of the 11 windows on my first floor to restore before I head upstairs.

I feel that replacing old sashes takes from the integrity of the home.

All of mine were painted so many times that some wouldn't even open and the caulk had come loose and they were leaking. I used a heat gun to remove the build up of paint and caulk,used epoxy for cracks in the wood, primered them and took them to a local glass shop to have them lay a bead of caulk (I just can't do that, and it was only $5.oo to have it done) Then picked the sashes up, painted them white and I had good as new windows.

Of course the POs painted the window case and surrounding trim. I stripped that too, but stained them dark as they were originally. I used chain instead of rope, hoping I'll never have to take those windows a part again, LOL.

I have many projects going - if they just windows, I'd be done, but that's old house livng.

Save those sashes!

Hope this makes sense, I'm in a hurry to leave.

Edee

Hi Edee,
I agree that those ropes are a pain in the donkey but they are original and I have used chain but, it was called register chain and laid or hung flat against the window frame and really didn't look at all that bad especially it the window treatment had drapes.

Thank you for your input on these forums.

Respectfully,

Ralph Jones

thanks for all the input for my windows. I am now having someone come to reglaze, and rehang the windows. I noticed that the window sashes have a groove cut inot the sides, and the sashes slide up and down on them. Will this make getting themout now much more difficult, as the metal pieces that they slide on are attached to the frame?

thanks-Shari

Shari,
If you look at your windows you will find that when the window is set back into where it goes there is a stip of wood that fits into a groove on each side of the window frames. These are called window stops as they keep the window from falling out as you slide it up or down and that metal is weather stripping installed in the fram when the window was made. However over the years some times it will wear very thin and to the point that it will slice your fingers pretty darned quick. Those pieces need to be replaced and most any quality hardware store carry's them. You may even find them a Lowes or some other Box store.

Respectfully,

Ralph

DONT DO it keep the wood I'm in the process of changing mine back it a ton of work and its expensive, replacements that are not wood look terrible....

As a remodeler and Alaskan homebuilder, I would suggest researching wood replacements of the same style but with double or triple pane efficient windows. Although you can have replacements in vinyl or fiberglass constructed, I would recommend against it. For efficiency sake though look at wood replacements that are much more efficient.

We live in a stone Stickley Craftsman house that my husband's grandparents built in 1915. The double-hung windows are just as they were then - drafts and all! We don't want to replace the windows but my husband is considering making storm windows which would be in character with the house. We would love to hear from anyone who has experience or suggestions with storm windows. Thanks! Veronica

hey Veronica-

If you go over to oldhouseweb.com there is a wealth of info about original windows, storms windows, etc. They pretty much hate vinyl replacement windows so some of the window threads have been a bit heated.

But it talks about fixing original windows as well - there's lots of great info over there.

Donna

Here is an interesting presentation on why you should save your historic windows. Food for thought. Lauren

I also struggled with that decision on my 1913 Sears Flossmoor. In the end, I decided that it was my responsibility to restore and maintain the original windows. Mine also leaked air, so I had some wooden storm windows made. The fit is nice and tight, and frankly, I think they are more efficient than new windows. Not that expensive either...about 200 bucks per window. And two of the windows are 44" wide.

Hi John-

You have a flossmoor?? please please post some pics. I am totally addicted to Sears homes. What part of the universe is your house in?

Hey Donna,

Here is John's house: Sears Flossmoor Model Kit House

Lauren

Mmmmm....that is a sweet house! I haven't seen a flossmoor in person yet.