One of ten things to do before I die...go to Rago's

Great coverage gentlemen. Any purchases go home with you??

i agree, great to have not one but TWO first hand accounts.

it would be very interesting to see a catalog of brad pitts collection. more interesting would be to see his house and if he uses the stuff or just stores it.

i found this on the American Society of Appraisers site, a list of celebrity collectors and what they collect. not sure how current this is.

streisand- A&C furniture
Pitt - A&C furniture
Spielburg _ the same
Joel Silver - the same
Tommy Lee Jones - the same
Richard Gere - the same

Michael Caine - Galle and Lalique
Jean Smart - Roseville and mccoy pottery
Clint Eastwood - Big little books

im sure george lucas belongs in the first group along with many others not named...

how are us little guys supposed to survive?

Didn't Streisand sell off to go Colonial? I thought when she sold the Gus sideboard it was because she decided to redecorate?

I remember hearing Streisand sold her a&c and art nouveau to focus on art deco. I'm not sure how many of the others above are still collecting and if so how active they are. I know Joel Silver is/was a big time Teco collector, Brad Pitt has been buying G&G for several years now, Joel Silver was a big collector of all things A&C in the 80s and early 90s, and I believe Spielberg in part collects Tiffany lamps (as does/did Jack Nicholson). I'm certain we are missing many more but will learn of them if/when they sell their collections and if they decide to include their ownership as provenance. In recent years Glenn Ford sold his small A&C collection at Fontaine's and Kenny Loggins sold his Handel lamp collection at Craftsman/Rago.

As far as purchases this past weekend, my wallet left with only a small dent. I was lucky enough to get a tile I really wanted as well as two other pieces of pottery from the Saturday sale.

one other celebrity I can think of is Penny Marshall who I believe collects limbert...I too left with only a small dent in my wallet. I picked up the fire screen..I really liked the marblehead piece by arthur baggs and seemed reasonable at 2600 a very impressive piece..I did see jmw from boston there and knew he'd make sure everything was covered..

I also liked the bow arm..I prefer the wider arms with the corbels, i believe probably rarer..the factory repair didn't bother me that much...I do know it came from a woman who had bought it over 20 years ago, as a collector..I know the previous one that went through rago's did 42K and it wasn't even listed in the catalogue as a reverse taper..but it was in very nice cond. The last reverse taper with narrow arms at fontaine's had major work done to it, and still brought I believe 12k, it was the same time treadway had one that did about the same and was told it was in similar condition..It seems like everything at fontaine's has the same color to it..and usually condition issues...

I remember looking at the reverse taper at Fontaine's and thinking it had work done to the finish but I don't remember the specifics. All too often their furniture all has been coated with the same dark brown colored wax that rubs off when you touch the piece and as far as other condition issues, it is certainly a buyer beware situation.

Do you guys find the detailed condition reports to be reliable from the auction houses? It seems you're suggesting that Fontaines puts a little 'sugar coating', so to speak, on their pieces - whatever it actually is, i.e. real wax or one of those all-in-one quick fixes like Briwax. Do any independent appraisers do condition reports when they preview? I assume they do if the price and client warrant. Any headbutting with the auction house as a result?

Oh by the one one other note on the vancroft pieces..did you notice the If you look in fontaine's catalog #19 May 14th 2000 You'll see the double door trapazoid china cabinet that sold for 60K that is the one you see in the dining room photo of vancroft..apparently the caretaker had it and put it into fontaine's a while ago same overcoated finish that was removed...by the way bought by M.L.

I wouldn't totally rely on the auction house..I would never buy from fontaine'a unless I saw the piece in person..I've never asked for a cond. report from fontaine's since jerry cohen left..they don't publish the condition..I don't know if there's anyone there who can reliably give you a condition report. I know David Rudd was doing the vetting for Rago's but I believe Jerry Cohen is now doing it..and I believe he is much more conservative on his vetting. If I was serious about a piece I would always want to see it in person..If you see Mishunaire on ebay..he works with fontaine's and lists pieces which haven't reached there reserve at auction...I would not trust his condition reports...

I find the condition reports are all helpful to some degree and depend on the auction house. However, more importantly, when you ask questions, the answers you get (and in my opinion the truthfullness of the answers) really matter.

I find Rago's catalog descriptions to be pretty accurate and anytime I have asked for assistance I feel they have been honest, often to the point of downplaying the condition of the piece. I would buy without seeing a piece here.

Treadway descriptions I find often lack detail, however everytime I have asked for pictures or a detailed condition report they have come through with a high level of detail and have always been very helpful. After follow-up I would spend money on a modest piece with seeing it in person.

Fontaine's (post Jerry Cohen era) is a different story. The few times I've asked questions, I never felt like I got a straight answer and several times I felt I was being misled or not given the full story. Items are often misidentified and all lots are sold as-is, no matter what misrepresentations may be made. I will not buy anything here without inspecting (or someone I trust inspecting) the property in person. At the last Fontaine sale, I actually saw a teenage employee, at the direction of another older employee wiping down a Gus lamp table with Pledge.

I've seen condition debated amongst dealers/collectors and staff several times with various conclusions. I once saw Beth Cathers question the condition or age of a top board on a Gus plant stand and it was promptly pulled from the sale. I was also witness once to a, we'll call it, a "loud disagreement" between a pretty well known mid-level dealer and the staff at Fontaine's. The dealer asked for the dimmed lights to be turned up so he could inspect the furniture in the main room. The staff said it was impossible (although they had been brighter just 30 minutes prior), so the dealer opened the curtains on the back wall to discover newspaper had been taped to the windows to cover them. He said he was going to remove the paper so he could have some light to inspect the pieces and the "loud disagreement" was on. It eneded with the dealer leaving and I presume not making any purchaes.

As far as independent condition reports, I'm certain they are done for clients. However, if you have a question most dealers are happy to help during a preview. At Rago, on the Friday before or Saturday of a sale numerous dealers and staff are around, chatting and willing to help or share their opinion if you ask.

I've heard the same story about the china cabinet. Not sure what early forms he doesn't own at this point.

am i correct in assuming the M.L. is michael lerher(sp?)?

don - yes

I haven't posted here in eons, but we made our first trip to Rago's from Chicago last weekend and thought I'd share a few observations. You can make it there in one day!

The big Gus dining pieces from Vancroft were magnificent. Maybe it's just me, but I questioned if the finish hadn't been enhanced to some degree? What really brought us to the auction was the early Limbert leaded bookcase. A very cool piece, but worth 12K with the bp?...twas far more than we were willing to go.
We have a #400 Limbert sideboard with the art nouveau glass panels and it would have been a nice complimentary piece. Oh well, the hunt continues. Anyone notice the inside of the leading was encrusted in some kind of brittle calcium or lime-like oxidation? What's up with that? Some of the interior shelves were quite warped as well....moisture must have gotten to it I guess. Several of the other Limbert pieces had finish issues, but there were quite a few cut-out pieces there. The 3 door bookcase sold high, but it had a great finish.

While we didn't bring anything home from the auction, it was still a very enjoyable trip. We stayed at a b&b in New Hope and had dinner at DeAnna's in Lambertville. Dinner was outstanding and I would recommend to anyone. The weather was great and we thoroughly enjoyed the trip.

mte55@comcast.net In contrast to Treadway's auctions, we liked the bright green colored bid cards and the use of spotters...(we've been missed before at TG) we also were surprized that David did the auctioneering duties himself and quite well. We don't like the lack of condition statements in the catalog....mever makes me feel comfortable bidding from a distance. To compare only one of Rago's auctions quality to Treadway's I think is unfair. The early spring auctions at Treadway have traditionally had some lesser items while the better quality items show up at the December auction. Treadway has had many outstanding A&C examples pass through his hands and I wouldn't consider buying a high end lamp from anyone else in the business. Just my 2 cents worth. If your into A&C you must make this trip at least once.

It's my understanding all of the Vancroft pieces had been overcoated with a shellac in the 1920's and prior to the auction it was decided to remove the overcoat from the best pieces. The sideboard, server, dining chairs, dining table, gong and possibly a few more pieces were all in this category. It seems whenever you remove an overcoat, no matter how slight, some of the original color and finish will be lost. I think they must have added color back to even it out across each piece, however I'm just not sure how much. I thought the resoration was about as good a job as I've seen.

The Limbert leaded glass bookcase was a nifty piece and the first time I have seen the colored glass in person. The price seemed high given condition, however I guess it is one of those pieces that no one knows when another will surface. I've seen the calcium like deposits on other leaded glass bookcases in the past. I assume it has to do with exposure to moisture, but my big question is can it be fixed or will the leaded elements seperate from the glass over time.

This is the first time I have seen them exclude furniture condition from the catalog. Condition reports were available online for each lot and they had additional photos for many. I would really like the condition added back to the printed catalog as it makes it much easier to preview the lots.

I agree with your observations regarding Treadway. For me, the space they use for the auction makes things a little difficult. I've had a bid missed at Treadway as well. It would be nice if they could find a larger, more open space. That would give them the ability to spread out the merchandise during preview and leave the pieces (at least furniture) out throughout the auction day.

I appreciated reading everbody's comments about the recent Craftsman/Rago auction, and especially about condition reports. I am very open to communicating with members on this subject as it is (1) an area where buyers have very different concerns and desires regarding condition, (2) an area where educated dealers and collectors often disagree, and (3) an area where written descriptions are often misleading to the detriment of the piece, because our historical policy has been to focus on condition negatives only. Condition reports were removed from the catalog this March because the print space available is insufficient to write a comprehensive condition report, and because of the opportunity to do these reports more thoroughly using the internet. For the September sale, we will have multiple copies of the online condition reports printed and placed throughout the auction hall so that bidders can put their hands on this information at the auction hall. The biggest dilemma in condition reports has always been that our audience runs the gamut from (1) people who want items that have sat in one place for 100 years without being polished, cleaned, bumped into, scratched, modified or worn in any way, to (2) people who are furnishing a home with antiques who are not bothered by signs of 100 years of normal wear and tear, to (3) people who are decorating with antiques and want their pieces "ready to go" and don't have pre-set notions that an overcoat, repair, or refinish disqualifies a piece from being desirable, to (4) people who overlap all those categories in some manner. Since each individual buyer is unique, it would be ideal to sit down with each buyer to establish their criteria re: price and condition, rarity and quality of design, and other factors, and then look at the condition of each piece and weigh how it fits into their needs. I always try to do that in my shop but it is not possible to give that much personal attention in the auction setting (although I do try). Hopefully, with the ability to exhibit more photos and more information online, sufficient information will make it to each potential buyer that addresses their own needs. I am always available prior to each sale to help buyers with this process. David Rago and I have businesses that are successful, and we have worked very hard to build those businesses with the intention of establishing long-term, satisfied customers. To do this, you have to start by being honest with your customers. Your comments through this forum or privately, are welcome, and any suggestions as to how to improve the services we offer will always be thoughtfully considered.

jerry

thanks for the comments and background on the condition reports for the auctions.

as you said, it would be extremely difficult to accurately express the condition to suit every potential buyer. this emphasizes the need to see the piece first hand to determine if the condition is acceptable. the subjective qualities of finish, color and patina are next to impossible to relate in even the highest quality photographs and written descriptions are even harder.

again thanks and welcome to the forum. i hope you will come back and join the discussions.

I guess I don't see how a condition report would vary on an item for the 4 types of potential customers that you identify. The condition of a piece shouldn't change to reflect different buyers. Polishing, cleaning, bumps, scratches, modifications, overcoats, repairs, refinishes, or any other of the conditions you listed should be facts that don't change regardless of the type of intended buyer.

Welcome JC

Good point Jeremy - the reports should be objective and not deviate from a relatively standard set of criteria - what should vary is the price, based on the conditions, and I think this is what JC is getting at; different strokes for different folks and price ranges to match

..follow up..Regarding Jerry's point "where educated dealers and collectors often disagree" seems to say that maybe things are not as objective as one might hope. What are some of the points/questions of disagreement? I would think, questions like: Does colour (dye to wood) or finish (shellac/wax over lost finish) added to original, still count as original, or what is the proper way to describe this? Overcoat removed - is this a misleading statement, can it truly be done? If something is refinished, is original style shellac wax more valuable than lacquer/varnish etc. - many reports/notes just say 'refinished' without saying what the finish is? Reglued but not refinished - does this add or detract from original value/condition? How can you tell or not tell if something is reglued? etc. etc.