..a pretty respectable sale in Cincinatti, coming up:

http://www.forsythesauctions.com/

Is it me, or are the estimates really low on most items? At least the buyer's premium isn't outrageous at 13%.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Some of the stuff looks bang on but certainly some looks low, if you take a retail perspective. Only the big houses with the reputations to match get the equivalent of retailish prices (somewhat due to the buyers premium). In general terms, most auction houses can only hope for a third to two thirds of retail; afterall dealers buy alot at auctions to resell with the appropriate mark-up. This looks like a pretty good sale for dealers. If anyone goes, could you buy me this bookcase, I'll swing by and pick it up later..

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZforsythesauctionsQQhtZ-1

..the sale just went up on ebay...lots of extra pics..

my local dealer is going. he said he will track anything or give first hand condition assessments, etc. he will even bid for me if it is not something he wants. this is one he wants...

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/29-CHARLES-STICKLEY-DR...mZ160114893140QQrdZ1

According to Google maps I could get there in just about 8hrs, LOL. The smalls that I initially thought were cool (and would be cheaper to ship obviously) all have bids on them already, i.e. a couple of the Rookwood vases...I sense no bargains here..

I want (not need) the Stickley Brothers plant stand. Where are you and would he ship to me? It looks as though you pay more if you are an internet bidder. Plus, you can't pick it up after the acution, somebody else has to do that and ship it.

Bev.

Any thoughts about the maker of this morris chair? Best guess, it is Gus but something isn't quite right. The tops of the posts are bothering me. Pretty sure it isn't L&JG. Not certain of many other manufacturers that made a drop arm similar to this form (Limbert took a different approach), however from the pictures the chair does have some age.

Opinions?

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/126-ARTS-CRAFTS-MISSIO...mZ160114893532QQrdZ1

Why are there 4 little white dots on top of the posts? Applied caps perhaps? Otherwise it sure looks Gus. Others made this form, i.e. copied Gus, but not every detail, and this seems to have all the Gus detail while examples from others usualluy skipped or modified something. Newer repro dinged up a bit and made to look old perhaps?

did anyone monitor or buy stuff from the auction yesterday? would like to hear comments.

Yea, my favorite Stickley Brothers plant stand sold for $900. I thought it would be high at $500. It was refinished.

The highest E-bay bid was $500. The bidders on the floor bid from $500 up to $900. Since they are not even identified by numbers, you don't know how many people were bidding.

Bev.

Got back to the east coast from Cincinnati late last night. Overall it was an interesting trip and I'm happy to have added a nice piece to our collection. Several observations:

- This was the first time I have attended a cataloged auction in a wedding facility. While it lacked any real atmosphere, I thought it worked out well. The merchandise was spread throughout the space giving plenty of room for preview. I wish the air conditioning was working a bit better as it got stuffy as the hours went by.

- I found the staff very friendly and willing to answer any questions or assist in any way possible. However, I found many of the condition reports posted online to be off base. Some were not even close. The biggest differences were finish and seam separations.

- I am not accustomed to Rookwood being viewed as a local product. I think a decent portion of the crowd was in attendance just for the Rookwood. I heard comments on several occasions about how the "out of town" crowd was overpaying for the pottery. To me the prices for the production Rookwood were comparable to Craftsman or Cincinnati Art Galleries auctions (although to be completely fair, I don't follow Rookwood closely). It seemed obvious many locals normally paid much less at "country" auctions.

- The buyers premium with cash or check was 10%, something rarely seen any more.

- Prices for furniture were all over the place, some good deals, some overpriced and most within the range (albeit closer to the high end based on condition) you would expect at a major auction house.

- Lots that went high - Lot 7,L&JG magazine stand @ $2,200(pretty sure the back was replaced although it did present very well), Lot 91, Stickley Brothers magazine stand @ $1,500 (was in decent shape, but a bit much for the smaller sized stand), Lot 240, L&JG tabouret @ $1,300 (although this is the largest size, I thought the condition was suspect), Lots 261 & 262, Generic wastebaskets (I'm not sure what was up with these to even justify paying the low estimate; I just didn't see anything in them).

- Lots I thought were decent deals - Lot 17, Limbert cutout armchair, Lot 66, Lifetime bookcase, Lot 90, generic daybed (needed some finish restoration but overall good deal)

- The big lots (Gus open bookcase, Gus #815 china cabinet and the dining suite) all sold for decent prices but no more (and possibly a bit less) than they would bring at a major auction.

- I have no idea why Lot 116, the huge dining table sold for $7,500. It was massive, with a top about 1 3/4 inches thick and huge thick legs with big keyed tenons. The top was made of about a dozen boards, splined with 1/2 inch high splines. Lots of speculation about maker (it was sold as generic) and it seems Onondaga Shops may fit. Would love to hear other opinions about the table

- I was never able to figure out Lot 126, the generic drop arm morris chair. It was very similar to the Gus #369, however the through tenons were of different sizes, the tops of the posts were not right and the it didn't have that overall "feel". Possibly Gus, probably not.

- The SoC morris chair was interesting. I only looked at it briefly and it certainly had some condition issues beyond the modifications to the seat. I'm not even sure it was originally a morris chair, but rather a fixed back arm chair. The proportions were massive and the inlay design was much better than the standard inlay. It would have been an awesome piece in really good condition. Unfortunately to bring it back to original shape would have been nearly impossible.

Would love to hear other opinions about the sale and/or to the best of my recollection, answer questions anyone has about specific lots.

Thanks casequarter for a fantastic report! This is exactly what this forum is designed to do and I wish more people would be as altruistic.

I agree about the drop arm Morris chair. Looking back at the photos on the ebay listing you can even tell a few things that are off - the pegs in the joints are not totally flush with the boards, the beveling of the top posts is not perfectly symmetrical, etc. I wonder if this couldn't be a case where a really good woodworker replicated a Gus 369 at home. I know it seems unlikely but I know there are some very very good woodworkers out there that could almost exactly duplicated a Gus morris chair - and if you used it for 100 years it would age the same and almost pass for the real thing... or it could be a generic company that copied it - but I haven't seen that much and this would not be my first choice to copy due to the complexity. The hardest part about this chair in terms of making it at home or copying it would be the steam bending of the arms... Other folks must have been bothered by it too since it looks like it only brought 3K.

Your observation on the wastebaskets is interesting and also the dining table. Wastebaskets come up fairly often on ebay and don't go that high.

Thanks again for the report!

Good wastebaskets actually fetch a premium on eBay lately, probably due to the small shipping size and affordability compared to other large pieces. 261 & 262 caught my eye right away in the catalogue, as the design is unique and the color and wear is great. However I was still surprised that they both fetched $400 & $475 (plus premium), only expecting about ~$250 really.

Another surprise was the 248 hanging lamp. I really didn't expect it to bring $1000. Again it jumped out from the catalogue as eye catching, so maybe everybody else thought the same.

I thought the LakeSide Craft Shop Magazine Stand (Lot 19) was a bargain at $375. Granted it wasn't marked/labeled, and had a couple of nicks and such, but would have thought it would bring in more.

Supposedly Forsythe's withheld their A&C pieces from over the last couple years in order to have it as one big auction.

To me the hanging lamp was more interesting in the catalog. It had several wear marks (as seen online) but also had several breaks to the metal overlay. In person, it was one of those odd situations where the piece appeared more modern but I believe was acutally older.

The morris chair didn't appear to be of recent manufacture. At the sale the all too common attribution to Charles Stickley was made. Certainly could have been, however I just think this is a situation where it will remain a mystery.

quote:

Good wastebaskets actually fetch a premium on eBay lately, . . . I was still surprised that they both fetched $400 & $475 (plus premium), only expecting about ~$250 really.

Just how much are wastepaper baskets going for on E-ay these days?

There is one locally for $200 but I think that it is high priced for split in bottom.

Bev.

quote:

Originally posted by Bev:
Just how much are wastepaper baskets going for on E-ay these days?
There is one locally for $200 but I think that it is high priced for split in bottom.

There were two wastebaskets back in January on eBay that I was watching which ended at $203 and $330. They were the slatted side panel pieces forming in an octagon shape then tied together with leather cord/strips. I don't think they were marked either if I recall. Surprised me really, because I don't find that design really attractive personally. They seem kind of flimsy and the leather cording looks too western style for my taste.

There was another one in January that went to $177 which was a plain sided square panel. Since then, there have been a couple every now and then, but mostly junk or really beat up, so less than $100 usually. There was a nice solid panel triangular corner one once a couple of months ago, but I didn't save the info on it. I think there was a Stickley one recently where someone had cut out all the slats of one whole side in order to insert a liner into it more easily (either that or it was a plant or umbrella stand converted to a trash can). I remember someone listed one once that was 'supposedly' from a neighbor of someone like Gustav Stickley who got it from Gus personally, or some such nonsense like that. I don't remember if it sold or not, as I don't usually devote further attention to junk like that.

The Forsythe ones were good, because the design of the simple slatted taper really popped and the color and wear were nice (one was better than the other). But I didn't think they were $400/$475 good (plus buyers premium on top of that), at least to my wallet. I'd expect a top tier manufacturer label for that price.

Hi Bev,

I guess it would have to depend on the design, maker and condition "DMC". They have been commanding a good to fair price for good A/C accessories even the arts and crafts form Erie Metal Arts wastebaskets.

If you can post an image ot the one at you local shop, it may be worth it even though it may neen some work.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by casequarter:

At the sale the all too common attribution to Charles Stickley was made.

Do you mean when in doubt auctioneers and dealers like to say "could be Charles Stickley" because there are no references out there to say otherwise?

Often I hear auction houses and dealers attribute designs similar to Gus pieces as Charles Stickley. While little production documentation seems to exist, I think these attributions have some possible validity. Pieces similar to Gus (and sometimes L&JG)marked Charles Stickley or Stickley & Brandt surface. These pieces often have many similarities (for example I remember Gus hardware on a server and nearly identical dimensions to the same Gus form), but often have small differences (different hardware connecting the top and base of lamp table or different drawer construction).

Given the marked examples, attribution of unmarked examples is next step in logic for many. I think it may be correct in some cases, isn't in other, but overall it is probably overused.

I should mention I don't think Forsythe's was doing anything out of the ordinary of dishonest. With lack of a solid attribution, Charles was probably as good a guess as any.